The only voice I hear is Tim’s

Vince Li has been found not criminally responsible for the gruesome murder and beheading of Tim McLean on a Greyhound bus last summer because he is mentally ill.

Both the Crown and the defence agreed that Li is a schizophrenic who was suffering from a psychotic episode when he killed the 22-year-old McLean.
Li, 40, will now be remanded to a secure psychiatric facility where he will receive treatment. A review panel will decide in the next six weeks which facility he will be transferred to.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I want to begin with a warning. The commentary I am about to offer you has graphic details that you may not want to expose your children to. They concern a hideous event that took place on a bus near Portage La Prairie, Manitoba. Today, a judge ruled on whether the man with the knife was criminally responsible. The ruling was a foregone conclusion, since this was a trial where the defence and prosecution were on the same page, both telling the judge that the defendant was NOT guilty legally, NOT criminally responsible for his actions. And today Justice John Scurfield, having no legal choice in the matter, acted lawfully when he ruled that Vincent Li was not criminally responsible. Li is being sent to an institution where he will receive treatment and assessed annually and some day a team of psychiatrists may decide that Vincent Li is ready to resume his life as a free man. For many people that is the end of the trail. For the victim’s mother, she wants a law passed, Tim’s law, that says if you are found NOT criminally responsible after having killed somebody, where there is no doubt who did the killing, that if you are committed to a mental facility, that you go there for life. I AGREE with her.

I know that the overwhelming majority of you agree with her. But there are times in this country where we are told by people with far more power than they deserve to have, that the MAJORITY is savagely ignorant, caring only about low rent emotions like revenge, and should be kept as far away as possible from decisions like this.

As a country we are being asked to accept the idea that if a man is suffering from a mental illness when committing the most hideous of crimes, then we must park our desire for punishment, we must avoid our feelings for the family of the victim, we must focus on one thing and one thing only and that is the current mindset and current ideology of Canada’s Psychiatric Community, who individually are for the most part, good and decent people, but collectively on some issues are not necessarily the country’s most reliable friends.

There are also many people in this country suffering from mental illness. Their families and friends are suffering with them. And many of them OVER-IDENTIFY with Vincent Li. Many of them say if the Majority of Canadians have a beef with this decision, they have a beef with all people who are suffering with mental illness, and if they think that someone who is suffering should be sent to an institution with no hope of ever getting out, the slippery slope is being created for all people suffering. This is where Canadians have to put up the stop sign and say, “I am sorry to inform you, that this is not about you or a member of your family. This is about someone who killed a young man and then proceeded to eat his kill.” And while many people are suffering from mental illness and deserve compassion and treatment, they are not all VINCENT LI and we’re not creating a more just and rational Canada by over-identifying with him. We are creating precisely the opposite.

I want to take you to the event in question by reading in a very straight forward way, the story that was filed by the Canadian Press earlier this week and appeared on news sites and newspapers all over the world.

The man who beheaded a passenger on a Greyhound bus was a victim himself, tormented by the voice of God telling him to do it, a forensic psychiatrist told Vince Li’s second-degree murder trial.

The voice told Li to use an assumed name and get on the bus traveling from Edmonton to Thunder Bay last July, Dr. Stanley Yaren said on the first day of Li’s trial.

Li chose to sit next to Tim McLean because McLean made a “friendly gesture’’ to him, Yaren said.

As the bus neared Portage la Prairie, Man., around 8:30 p.m., 40-year-old Li started hearing voices.

“A voice from God told him Mr. McLean was a force of evil and was about to execute him,’’ Yaren told the judge hearing the case.

“He had to act fast to protect himself. In response to that, in a state of panic and fearful for his life, he carried out the acts that he did.’’

Killing McLean wasn’t enough, Yaren said.

Li, whom Yaren diagnosed as schizophrenic, believed 22-year-old McLean was capable of coming back to life, so he continued to mutilate the body and scattered the parts around the bus, the psychiatrist testified.

Although he admitted his guilt to officers that night, Li pleaded not guilty yesterday. His lawyers are arguing he is not criminally responsible because he is mentally ill.

Yaren concurred.

Li is still psychotic and believes it’s just a matter of time before God kills him, Yaren said. He continues to have hallucinations and hear voices, but is on strong anti-psychotic medication.

“Mr. Li did not understand he was killing an innocent bystander. He did not understand his actions were wrong,’’ said Yaren, adding Li is a humble, respectful person.

“It would be in some sense easier if Mr. Li was an anti-social psychopath with a history of malicious behaviour, but he isn’t that. He is, as I’ve come to know him, a decent person. He is as much a victim of this horrendous illness . . . as Mr. McLean was a victim.’’

McLean’s family, many of whom came face-to-face the killer for the first time yesterday, found the suggestion repugnant.

“At some point, my son’s biggest mistake was going, ‘How’s it going?’ And for that his head was cut off and his insides were splayed all over the inside of that bus,’’ said Carol deDelley, McLean’s mother.

“I’m having a very difficult time having any sort of sympathy (with Li) . . . I don’t think Mr. Li is a victim here.’’

An agreed statement of facts read out in a Winnipeg courtroom said Li, blood smeared on his face from the attack, had to be Tasered twice when he first escaped from the bus, which had pulled over by the side of a Manitoba highway.

The statement said Li attacked McLean “for no apparent reason’’ and ignored other horrified passengers as he repeatedly stabbed the young man, who unsuccessfully fought for his life.

When the bus pulled over near Portage la Prairie, Li was engrossed with stabbing and mutilating McLean’s body. Passengers fled the bus and stood outside.

It was then that Li tried numerous times to leave the bus. But he was locked inside and, according to the statement, returned to McLean’s body and methodically carved it up further.

Police said McLean’s body parts were found throughout the bus in plastic bags, although part of his heart and both eyes were never found and were presumed eaten by Li.

Now I just want to take a bit of a break here for a few minutes, to allow you to have some measure of relief from what is being discussed and ask you a few questions. Just Canadian to Canadian.

Why am I supposed to have sympathy for Vincent Li?

Why am I supposed to ignore my feelings of sympathy for Tim McLean?

When did we become a Vincent Li country?

Am I crazy for continuing to see us as a Tim McLean country?

Tim wasn’t looking to hurt anyone that night. His only mistake was sitting too close to Vince and for being nice to Vincent, for showing some concern for Vincent’s humanity. Asked him how he was.

When did we stop owning our own country? Who does this country belong to anyway?

Why don’t we have the right to have a guarantee that Vincent Li will never do it again?

Has Tim McLean not earned that one guarantee for the rest of us? Any one of us could have been on that bus sitting in the same seat. Any one of us could be somewhere, someday in the snare of a psycho and if we are brutally murdered, do we not earn the right to a guarantee that it will not happen to anyone else?

Is that unreasonable? No, that is entirely reasonable. And because we are forced to have lawyers and psychiatrists batter our common sense by telling us what is reasonable, is unreasonable, we begin to lose it. We begin to lose our respect for our own Country. Because a country is more than just beautiful lakes and streams and mountains. There must be a mountain of strong values that we look to for support. But it just seems that this one more story gives us the impression that the Canadian Mountain is volcanic and every now and then the volcano blows thick black ash in our faces.

The mountain is unstable and unpredictable and we end up fearing it, instead of honouring it.

I want the Canadian Mountain to be a Tim McLean mountain, not a Vincent Li mountain.

And now a brief interlude from common sense back into what went on this week in a Canadian courtroom. Mike McIntyre wrote the following in the Winnipeg Free Press.

Vincent Li claims voices in his head from God caused him to single out a perfect stranger, stab him multiple times and then decapitate, defile and cannibalize the body in front of dozens of horrified witnesses.

But despite committing one of the most gruesome crimes in Canadian history, Vincent Li could be rehabilitated enough to return to the streets one day, according to his doctor.

Psychiatrist Stanley Yaren told Li’s second-degree murder trial Tuesday that the admitted killer has a very strong chance to recover from the major mental illness and extreme psychosis that triggered last summer’s slaying of 22-year-old Tim McLean on board a Greyhound bus.

He described Li as an otherwise “decent person” who was suffering from untreated schizophrenia and clearly out of his mind when he believed he was acting on God’s commands to eliminate “the force of evil” by attacking the sleeping McLean.

“He was being tormented by auditory hallucinations,” said Yaren, who has worked closely with Li at the Health Sciences Centre psychiatric ward since he arrived last August. “He believed Mr. McLean was a force of evil and was about to execute him. He had to act fast, urgently, to save himself. This wasn’t an innocent bystander or stranger he chose to kill, but rather an evil force he was commanded to kill.”

Yaren, a witness on behalf of the Crown who is the director of forensic psychiatry for both the province and the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority, has concluded Li should be found not criminally responsible for his actions based on his mental state at the time.

Such a ruling would send him to a hospital, instead of a prison, for an indefinite period. Li admits he killed McLean, but began his case Tuesday by pleading not guilty by reason of a mental disorder.

“He didn’t understand, in my opinion, that he was just killing an innocent bystander. He understood this was the only action he could take,” Yaren told Queen’s Bench Justice John Scurfield.

Once McLean was obviously dead from dozens of stab wounds to the back and chest, Li continued to hear voices demanding he attack the body, he said.

“He was terrified, frightened, tormented. Mr. Li’s fear, because of what he was being told through these hallucinated voices, is that what he perceived to be the evil being would come back to life, through some supernatural powers and finish him off. He was in a frenzy to prevent this from happening,” Yaren said.

He said Li has been co-operative and made significant strides since being hospitalized and medicated and could function again in the community – something Yaren admits doesn’t sit well with most people, including the victim’s family.

“I completely understand the need for a sense of justice, of retribution,” Yaren said. “It would be in some sense easier if Mr. Li was an anti-social psychopath with a history of malicious behaviour, but he isn’t that. He is, as I’ve come to know him, a decent person.

He is as much a victim of this horrendous illness … as Mr. McLean was a victim. Don’t hate the person. Hate the illness.”

Dr. Yaren, I don’t hate Vincent Li. I just love my country and in my Canada when we know someone has done something wrong, something brutal, something barbaric, we do what we can to make sure it never happens again. And the only way to do that, is to deny him the opportunity. We ought to have the power to do that, Doctor. On the night in question, Vincent Li had the power of life or death over Tim McLean and it doesn’t matter whether he chose from a sane perspective or insane perspective to kill Tim and proceed to eat Tim. What are we being fed as a country? The idea that if someone heard the voice of God and God was telling him to do evil and he then did evil, than we are to forgive him and down the road risk the idea that he will be out and possibly have another rendezvous with the voices and the Tims? And you call my attitude revenge. I am not seeking Revenge, Doctor. Why are you and your colleagues in psychiatry wreaking vengeance on the rest of us? What did we do, besides grieve for Tim?

Back to the story.

The psychiatrist conceded Li’s actions could not have been predicted, given that he had no prior criminal record or history of any violence.

So at this point do we not have to ask the doctor this question:

If his behavior was not predictable a relatively short time before he did what did, what would ever give us comfort that future predictions coming from experts are to be believed.

The Psychiatrist described Li as polite, humble and hard-working and not a “monstrous psychopath.”

“The man I described, without psychosis, would have had no reason to kill Tim McLean.”

Doctor we get that. We get that the guy you met, is not the same guy Tim met.

He got the psychotic Vince.

Now I am asking you to understand something about your own profession. You know that all these medical terms you use, cover a wide range of behaviors and a wide range of human beings, who are unfortunately beset by these illnesses. You know that predictability exists only on a continuum, because human beings exist on a continuum. We are all different. We are all unique. And that is why when we ask that this person be put in a facility for life, we are not stigmatizing everyone with mental illness, we are segregating him from the rest of us, including those of us who are mentally ill.

We think you don’t know enough about the human mind to ever be able to guarantee us that whatever voices he heard, for whatever reasons, aren’t coming back. Doctor, you and the other experts are wonderful at examining the past and the present. But you don’t know how to predict the future. But we can predict that you will denounce those of us who have a different point-of-view as being unfeeling and uncaring, lacking in compassion for the mentally ill. Since we don’t accept your point-of-view, we are not worthy of you. Do you know what you are doing, Doctor? You are stigmatizing us and endangering us and threatening us. You see for most of us, the only voice we hear, is Tim’s voice. His voice is crying out for justice. His voice is hoping that our eyes are not as gouged as his were and that we are able to see clearly what some don’t have the courage to see.

Doctor, I know that it makes some people in the mental health community and those among the chattering classes feel better to see Vincent Li as a victim here. He is less frightening as a victim and less culpable. It feels good for some to make this story go away that way. You know what feeling good is, Doctor. It’s a selfish thing. It is selfish for anybody to take away anything from this which would make them feel good. It’s ironic when you think about it. Tim McLean on that Hot Prairie Night wasn’t selfish at all. He is the one who showed concern for Vincent Li and paid attention to him. Most of the rest of us would have ignored him. Tim didn’t and for that he has paid a huge price and today’s decision makes me feel that Tim’s family will continue to pay a price, a price that is excruciatingly high. They are being told to have sympathy for Tim’s killer and if they don’t, they aren’t fully human by the standards of the psychiatric and mental health community. And that too is as barbarically wicked as what happened on that night, on that bus near Portage La Prairie.

Ladies and gentlemen, I don’t know if Vincent Li will ever taste freedom again. Apparently, we don’t have the right to take that away. So some day he may emerge from that hospital and some day, and we hope it never happens, he may hear those voices again. At the moment, the only voice I hear is Tim’s. And he is asking a question:

“What have they done to my country?”

I’m Charles Adler on the Corus Radio Network.

18 thoughts on “The only voice I hear is Tim’s”

  1. Li should be executed. Any person who is that defective should be. Any person who did what he did should be put to death. That’s my opinion.

  2. I have read your article and I have to agree with you. I cannot feel sympathy for some f@#k that killed an innocent person like that, crazy or not. The fact that Li is schizophrenic does not mean that he should not be held responsible for Tim’s murder and pay for it. He f#$king killed that man, and he needs to pay. If they let that crazy dude out, he will just stop taking his meds and kill someone else, if not himself. That’s the problem: some people are so freaking scared to discriminate against someone, that they end treating Li like he ran a freaking traffic light or something. God help the human race.

  3. It is time that Corrections Canada is updated as to the problems in our society. The rights of the individuals and safety of society is the last thing that they care about. Criminals have more rights than individuals. Stop pampering criminals.

  4. Hi there, I just would like to offer my support. I watched with absolute
    shock as the news reported that Mr Li will have no criminal record for his
    crime.
    I got in a really silly bar fight when I was 19 and was charged (I had not
    ever been in trouble with the law before or after this incident!) and this
    charge followed me on my record through professional job interviews for the
    next 10 years, until I received a pardon 6 months ago. I had to explain
    myself over and over in order to work with young people, the homeless and
    the disabled.
    I cannot believe that a crime like this would not even SHOW whatsoever on
    his record! What if he was to be picked up 20 years from now, they would
    run fingerprints and this would not even come up. A very good example of
    this just happened in our very own community not long ago, a young woman
    was murdered by a violent repeat offender who had been determined a RISK TO
    SOCIETY when he was released… he never signed in, as he was supposed to,
    and his whereabouts were unknown for over a year, until he showed up in our
    city and befriended a woman here. Less than 24 hours later she was found by
    her father and cousin, stabbed to death in her home. A slightly different
    circumstance, but the same in the sense that if someone poses a risk to
    society, they should be locked up with or without having actually committed
    a crime. Why wait until someone has actually murdered someone to lock them
    up… and even then, why use an illness as an excuse to have them deemed
    not responsible??
    I understand that the convicted and the mentally ill have rights, however,
    I believe that OUR rights to live in a safe and peaceful society should
    override. Neither Tim nor this young woman, had a chance to defend
    themselves or even know the kind of danger that they were in. What about
    their basic right to live? It’s just absurd to me. I try not to be paranoid
    but with two small children to watch constantly, I am fearful about the
    kinds of people that are walking our streets today that we would never even
    know pose a threat.
    I am just sick over this and wish you all the best. Keep fighting, for Tim
    and for all the innocent victims of situations like this.
    Sincerely, Jennifer

  5. As you said on Alex Jones the other day if you steal a lipstick from Walmart making no attempt to “act guilty” in a fit of insanity there is no chance whatsoever you will not end up with a criminal record for Theft Under for the rest of your life!

    Who the hell invented this “Not Criminally Responsible” nonsense?

    Who is responsible? Some imaginary hell owning warlord in a palace on a cloud’s Lucifer-executive, for having whispered in some nuts ear?

    What ever happened to the finding of “Criminal Insanity”?

    Why on earth must victims have to re-live and maintain indefinite vigilancs lest some witch doctor decide that his Godly powers have ‘cured’ this monster and decides to test out his theories on society once again?

    Do they eat with knives in this ‘hospital’?

    Just how secure is this detention center for the criminally insane?

  6. Sickening laws allow for sickening crimes to continue.
    Maybe if people would hold the ‘law makers and experts’ accountable( monetary fines/jail) for the monsters THEY allow to roam and cause havoc.

    Make them have a stake in what they blabber or when they pass laws to protect those who cause harm to innocents.

    Everyone else is held accountable for their actions.

    This is shameful how you treat the real victim Tim MacLean and his family.

    RIP TIM

    birgit

  7. I heard this over the BBC this morning and then decided I would visit the website to get the full details. This is a very touchy story and takes me back to an almost similar incident that happened to my daughter on December 19th 2008. She was stabbed by an unidentified man when they were attending a summer bash. The case has to date not been settled because no suspect has been brought to book.

    It breaks my heart even more to find that the charactaristics of the young boy just match those of my daughter; she was a sweet open, outgoing girl who was friends with the young and old alike. She died a terrible death, having been stabbed and bled to death, May her soul rest in peace.

    As a mechanism of healing us and all her friends we have since started a Foundation in her nick name to help the youth and other disadvantaged groups of society. This we felt would heal us , knowing these are the kind of things she was doing,even though on a small scale with no specific gudelines set. I belief Tim’s family will also get some kind of healing. For us closure seems to a far from happening event since the culprit has not yet been caught as I sit here writing.

    The most painful part of all this is that some people talk as if from space, and yes I think that could be it, because they do not feel the pain you are going through and worse as a mother you are even trying to figure what it is your child to deserve so much vengeance from another person , when you know them to be respectful and all the good characters I said before.

    I wish Tim’s family in their efforts to attain change for the good of other members of society and hope they too and all of us in the same situation can pray for each other to be healed in our different countries.

    Mati

  8. I like always support Tim’s family and this law.
    One point I find very interesting here and would also like to know is how someone who is deemed schizophrenic was allowed citizenship into this country, when my own husband, who had a criminal offence from the UK from when he was a teenage, was not allowed to be a permenant resident for over 7 years after his arrival into Canada? Very interesting….but aside from that still there are alot of things here that do not make sense and how we are all supposed to feel like Vince LI is the victim is beyond me. Another story I heard of out of the US last week was in regards to a man who has Autism, my youngest son is autistic, so not so much a mental illness but a neurological disorder, which I guess in essence can also be a mental illness depending on the severity. This man is severe, he killed his own mother,,,he is most likely going to jail. You know what, he most likely did not know that what he was doing is wrong, that is how his brain is programmed, but do you see him getting deemed NCR because he is autistic? No, and I agree with the decision. If this was my own son I would want him held responsible for what he has committed. Im not trying to take away from Tim here so please don’t think this, Im just making a point and I know we all agree, this is not right and its most infuriating and heartbreaking for his family that have to live thru his birthday, the christmas’s , the one year anniversary of all this horror. How the Canadian justice system finds this man NCR is beyond me and everyone in this country that has a heart and cares.
    Carol DeDelley and the Maclean Family and the rest of us need to get this point across and we will, we speak loud enough someone has to listen and see the point of view we are making. This man needs to be held responsible, not given in 2 yrs time “Hey Mr Li, you’ve recovered you can now return to your normal life back in the community” And like I have said before, what happens when he hears voices next? Do we let him get away with it again? No. What Tim’s family are doing is so selfless and I admire them so much for how they handle themselves and what they are doing. Instead of sitting back and letting life go on, they are fighting and not taking no for an answer.
    We need to support them in everything they do.

    RIP Tim..
    Brenda

  9. Stigmitzation

    I want to add a little on this subject. I have a career in Mental Health Services and Counselling that spans 29 years. I began when I was 18 and continue to this day. I am a tireless advocate of the mentally ill who are treated wrongly by society by being grouped into general categories such as “lazy,abusers of the employment and income assistance program, crazy. loose cannons etc” these are the terms that stigmitize those with mental health issues.

    Where does the idea come from that people with mental halth conernsare all violent and dangerous?? From acts such as what Vincent Li committed. Not the person, but the act.

    Also the whole issue in question is not whether one with a mental health concern is being treated in an unfair biased way here, the issue is that what he did was WRONG!He murdered and then ate parts of someone’s son. That is what is wrong. To those who stand pointing the finger at the DeDelley’s and McLeans for ridiculous claims about their veiws of mental illness walk a second
    in their shoes and imagine it was your child.
    I think your views would chance.
    Finially Carol deserves the respect to be addressed by her given name Carol DeDelley.
    I have nothing at all against Nadine and Tim Mclean. Please show Carol that respect.
    Thank You
    XX

  10. To add to Carol’s comment, I fully agree it was decided well in advance and when I gave an interview the day the verdict was released in Brandon, that was part of my interview was ommitted from what was aired. I also brought up how Mr. Li left a facility on his own and was not followed up and asked WHY?? That was ommitted as well as other gaps in the mental health system such as the fact that people can refuse to take their medications under the Mental Health Act,and refuse to stay in hospitals unless they are involuntarily admitted. An involuntary admission I believe is for 72 hours and unless a person is deemed a danger to themself or others they can not be held. The terrible tragedy here is that Mr. Li was a danger and it manifested itself too late. Perhaps if mental health had follwed him up this would not have happened. Why are they not accountable for this? It too has been brushed aside.
    I want to get this off my chest too.
    How dare anyone in the Mental Health field accuse the DeDelley and McLean Families of stigmitizing the mentally ill. The act Mr. Li committed did that. The covering up of information the public should have known from Day one did that. And for Carol and her children and the McLean families to find out those horrifying details in a court room did that.
    And also………..where was Tim’s Voice during that three day trial and why was Carol not allowed to address the court. She had to release her victim impact statemet to the media. That was shameful.
    Why on earth has Mr. Li become a victim here?
    What about Tim McLean? Has it been decided that will be brushed aside until June 1st 2009 when Mr. Li stands before a review board?
    And finially, it bothers me too that Carol is referred to as Mrs. McLean. Not because I have anything against the McLean side of the family at all. She is Carol DeDelley. It adds further insult that she is not even respected enough to be addressed by her given name.

  11. Thank-you all for your support My name is Mrs Carol de Delley and it has been for 19 yrs. We are all the family of Tim McLean, though we are not all McLeans, I suppose it bothers me so much because in the early days of this tragedy I was reported to have been on a cruise,I can assure you I was not and never have been on a cruise I was here at home devastated. My ex-husbands wife was the one on a cruise. Just trying to clear up a few facts.
    I too, would like to hear more in regards to how Mr Li managed to obtain citizenship in the same year that he was diagnosed schizophrenic, an illness that the doctor says does not manifest itself overnight. Li chose to leave the facility where he was being treated against medical advice and he than chose not to take his meds. Therefore he deserves and will get no sympathy from me. The forensic psychiatrists do business within the Legal community…what chance did we really have? It all seemed to have been decided well in advance of the trial

  12. V Li might be unwell mentally, you would have to be to carry out such a horrible act on another human…but as far as I am concerned he should be sentenced to life in jail and receive his treatments there so he doesnt do this to another inmate or secuirty office etc. He is mentally ill, and also evil.

    The justice system has failed you Tim .. like it has so many others, i am so sorry McLean family…

  13. Another concern I have is that Vincent Li is an immigrant. Li’s illness does not happen overnight. He was on a Greyhound bus from Edmonton where he was released from a mental facility, so the medical rhetoric pertaining to Vincent Li should be ignored.

    He should be immediately sent back to his country of origin and not become a greater burden to Canadians.

    The resources that will be used to treat this killer should go to our Canadian homeless with mental illness who do not murder.

    I wonder how truthfull Vincent Li was on his application to enter Canada. This mental illness they claim he has starts at a very young age.

    7 of the 11 people who decide who comes into Canada are immigrants….yes it’s true.

    He should be treated as any immigrant who breaks the laws of Canada and be sent back to his country of origin.

    However long you treat Li in the hospital you still cannot force him to take the medication that he is treated with in order to determine him well. Upon release he can stop taking his medication.

    Take back Canada, it is about Justice not revenge.

    ALL MY PRAYERS, LOVE AND PASSION ARE FOR YOUR BEAUTIFUL, PRECIOUS SON.

    GOD BLESS YOU MRS. MCLEAN

  14. What has happened is wrong in every sence.
    For that Dr. to think that we should feel sorry for Li is insane, which make’s me wonder if the Dr. himself has a mental illness?? 1 man does not change r minds about all men, it doesent make us judge others assuming they will be they same. That thought alone need to get out of people’s head’s. Li did wrong, not every one else, nobody but Li is being judged for his action’s.
    Tim’s voice should rise above it all his life that he did not deserve to lose should rise up, not Li’s.
    Why is he being awarded for doing wrong??
    Tim’s life was not ready to end.
    Now even more then ever it’s heart breaking to know they Li has got away with killing a kind, sweet, gentle, very loving man who would never hurt anyone & was there when anyone needed him!!
    Tim was great & it pains us all to know that we will never see or hear him again.
    It’s time to change for everyone to change! Li should be in a mental hospital but he should NEVER have the chance to leave there. No one that could do these things should ever beable to leave! Metal illness or not IT’S WRONG!!!!
    We NEED to change & we WILL change if everyone work’s together!!!
    LET TIM’S VOICE BE HEARD!!!!!!
    R.I.P. TIMMY 🙁

  15. Words can’t replace by what is lost!!
    But actions by people in Canada can change this law we have!!!!! Lets make a difference by changing the system ,the politics in Canada!!! PEOPLE we need to stand up for our rights not to live in fear each day!!! Lets not be the vicitims here but, the survivors and voices for TIM!!!
    And for all the others that don’t have the strength, give them strength to speak up and make a change!!!! I for one live in fear each day!!! But, I also speak up for myself and others for jutice!!!!
    So lets do this together and make this CHANGE!!!!!!

  16. I am so torn by the entire trajedy I know vince should never be allowed back in society but I also know the man needs some serious help and is probably beyond all mental repair but he belongs in an institution forever and i kinda feel like thats where he’ll be till he dies.
    RIP TIM MCLEAN
    YOUR FRIEND
    IN THIS LIFE AND THE NEXT
    Les Plomp

  17. I cried reading this.My heart aches for Tim and his family and friends.
    “He was terrified, frightened, tormented”.Excuse me??Did Tim not suffer any of these emotions as well?Yes and much,much worse.Tim is the victim not Li.I find it offensive for Mr.Yaren to compare them on any level.My prayers are with Tims family.He will never be forgotten.

  18. Very well written and said. I for one watched the outcome of the three day trial in Winnipeg unfold with dismay. In retropsect what happened was well determined months before the trial took place.Details of what Mr. Li did to Tim were kept from the public as well as Mr. Li’s mental health concerns. His records were sealed right from August.
    His previous history schizophrenia and last hospitalization were also kept out of the public eye. One can only conclude that these steps were taken to protect Vince Li and enhance to Non Criminally Responsible Defense strategy sought after.
    My heart ached for Tim’s family hearing Dr. Yaren stated Mr Li was as much as victim as Tim was. The Doctor obviously does not understand the heartbreaking loss and horror that Tim’s family have to live with, and adds insult to injury even comparing Vince Li to Tim McLean as a victim.
    Thento drag stigmitaization of the mentally ill and lack of compassion of those who have mental illness is really unfair.
    They lost their son, brother, uncle , cousin, friend in a manner to horrific to comprehend. They have been denied closure now as they have to attend yearly reviews. To top it all off they have to defend themselves against malicious people writting the most verbally abusive things about their whole situtaion. And their loss was not even validated in that three day trail. It became all about M. Li.
    I wonder also where Dr. Yaren and all of those speaking out for the rights of the mentally ill were when Vince had chose to leave treatment. That seems irrelevant now.
    Now Dr Yaren speaks of his chances for recovery and the timing of that is really inappropriate. Tim McLean will never have the chance to recover. His family will never have the chance to recover. I think they are owed far more than to be told their son’s murderer was as much a victim as Tim. That was a terrible thing to place on the family in that trial.
    Oh and by the way I have worked in the field of mental health care for many years. I am described as compassionate and a good advocate. This is not about Canada’s views about the mentally ill. It is about that what happened to Tim McLean was wrong and he should never be forgotten or brushed aside. It should never be deflected and turned into a battle for the rights of the mentally ill. Tim’s family and friends will not allow that to happen.

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