Timothy McLean’s Mother reads her Victim Impact Statement at Vincent Li Hearing

How has Timothy’s death affected or impacted me.                     May  2010

I’ve become very angry, frustrated and I lack the ability to focus on other issues in my daily life.  I struggle to get through a day without crying over the details of my son’s death.  We have now been through a year of firsts without Timothy.  Our family has had births and deaths and we have an upcoming wedding.  Every event is bittersweet because Timothy isn’t there to join in the festivities, and he should be.

I liked my life quite well 2 yrs ago. I was in my 10^th year of driving a school bus, and I was cooking meals for a senior’s home.   I now know how it feels to lose a child, and I no longer want the responsibility of all those children’s lives on my shoulders.  I no longer possess the patience or the personality to do the job.  I am no longer the fun-loving, carefree person that I used to be.  I have great difficulty sleeping and even when I sleep I never feel rested.  I worry all the time about my family members when they’re not in my sight. I worry about how Timothy’s death has affected my remaining children., and what the long term affects will be. I have concerns over my husband’s health.  He now has high blood pressure even with his medication and he too has a hard time getting any rest. The stress has taken a toll on all of us.

I am almost 50 yrs old and I swear these past 2 years have aged me by 10 years every employment I’ve ever had has been people oriented, I used to enjoy interacting with others through my work and socializing.  I don’t any more and I have no desire to make new acquaintances because I don’t trust people anymore.  I have no idea what I’ll be doing for employment in the future and that is a very big concern for me.  I have been in therapy 2 to 3 times a week since Timothy’s death to give me the tools to help me cope on a daily basis with the sorrow, heartache and rage I now experience.  Of course the cost of getting to therapy and the therapy itself are not cheap.  I am often unable to focus on the task at hand and my memory has become sporadic, retention is a problem too.  I hear conversations and can participate in them, however, trying to recall them later is difficult.  I have to write everything down now.  I am currently on long term disability so my income is about half of what it was before which of course has put more of the financial burden on my husband

I have never been a prejudiced person and now I am wary of all people and particularly of people of Asian descent.  I don’t want this to be the case it just is. I don’t want to see the visions in my mind but they are still there.  I don’t want to be here speaking the review board, I feel I have to be.

Carol de Delley (Timothy McLean’s mother)

Dr. Steven Kraemer: Vincent Li is ready to be out of his locked ward

At Vincent Li Second Annual Review Board Hearing, Dr. Steven Kraemer said he believes Li is ready to be allowed out of his locked, high-risk ward and on to the grounds at the institution for up to 30 minutes a day. Dr. Steven Kraemer is Vincent Li lead treating psychiatrist.

It has been less than two years but Kraemer suggests  Li could be accompanied by two security guards instead of the typical one-on-one supervision other residents receive. He said Li’s opportunities for fresh air, sunshine and recreation could gradually go up to two hours each day.

Even though the grounds are not surrounded by any fence and extra staff would likely have to be hired to accommodate the resources needed for Li, Dr. Steven Kraemer feels they are taking a very cautious approach. “We have no way of knowing how he will respond,” said Dr. Kraemer.

He said Li has responded well to medication, listens well to staff and has attended all required programming and treatment. Li has developed a better understanding about the impact of his crime and only “occasionally” suffers from the hallucinations that once haunted him.

Vincent Li Review Board Hearing on May 31, 2010

Less than 2 years after brutally murdering Tim McLean, Vincent Li will have his second Review Board Hearing on May 31,2010. The purpose of this review is to determine whether Vincent Li poses a continued threat to the general public

The Supreme Court of Canada has determined that the Review Board has an obligation to resolve when Vincent Li comes before them:

1. Vincent Li was found by the court to be “Not Criminally Responsible” for his action. Vincent Li does not have to prove anything. In other words: “properly read the section does not … impose a burden of proving lack of dangerousness on the NCR accused.”. There is no presumption of dangerousness in the law.

2. “Dangerousness” has a specific, restricted meaning of “a significant threat to the safety of the public”. This means there must be evidence to support the risk being real, and the physical or psychological harm being serious. The activity causing the harm must be criminal.

3. The Review Board has a duty to investigate facts which support release, as well as detention.

4. “If the Review Board fails to positively conclude, on the evidence, that the NCR offender poses a significant threat to the safety of the public, it must grant an absolute discharge”. In other words, if the Review Board “harbours doubts” or can not resolve whether Vincent Li is a significant risk to the safety of the public, they must unconditionally discharge as there is no legal or constitutional basis for confinement.

5. “As in all cases, the Review Board must make the disposition that is the least restrictive of the NCR accused’s liberty possible.”

6. The Review Board has an affirmative duty “to consider the accused’s personal needs”

Victim Impact Statements…

Counsel for Vincent Li objected to the acceptance of certain portions of statements that were filed with the Review Board by victims and those who classified themselves as victims.

Vince Weiguang Li was required to appear before the Review Board on Monday, June 1, 2009 for a Disposition hearing. The board was to consider the need to protect the public from dangerous persons, the present mental condition of Mr. Li and his reintegration into society and his other needs.

Vincent Li attorney argued that in some cases the victims included statements that went beyond the impacts that the offence had upon them. While there is no question that all of the individuals who submitted victim impact statements suffered great personal loss as a result of the commission of the offence, counsel for Mr. Li raised the issue of whether the authors of certain of the statements met the definition of “victim” as contemplated by section 722(4) of the Criminal Code, and also the issue of whether portions of certain of the statements went beyond what may be submitted to the Board under section 672.5(14), as each of those provisions have been interpreted by the Courts.

Counsel for Vincent Lee cited R. v. Gabriel, 1999 CanLII 15050 (Ont. C.A.),
R. v. Daley, 2002 CanLII 393 (N.B. Q.B.), R. v. Jackson, 2002 CanLII 41524 (Ont. C.A.) R. v. McDonough, 2006 CanLII 18369 (Ont. S.C.), R. v. Duffus, 2000 CanLII 22831 (Ont. S.C.) and R. v. Bremer, 2000 CanLII 345 (B.C.C.A.), for its legal arguments

Counsel for the Attorney General, Ms Deegan, argued that all of the victim impact statements ought to be accepted in their entirety. The statements had been prepared by their authors in accordance with the written guidelines provided to them by the provincial Victim Services Branch.

The board did not accept that position as the guidelines do not have the force of law. Following deliberations the Board permitted the victims who wished to read in their statements to do so, but with the offending portions of those statements struck out. The remaining victim impact statements were taken as filed, subject to the objections referred to above.

It is unfortunate that individuals who see themselves and are seen by many as victims,  and who have taken the time to write their earnest and heartfelt statements with the intention of reading those statements at the hearing, can find themselves in the position of having the admissibility and appropriateness of their statements challenged at the hearing, sometimes without advance warning. This can only exacerbate feelings of victimization.

Katie’ s Victim Impact Statement…in its entirety.

Thank you for allowing me to have this time to speak my mind about the last 8 months of my life, but how do I even begin to describe to how this crime has affect me?

I am Katie, Timothy’s baby sister. I suppose that is where I will start. Tim and I were very close growing up together, as we were only a couple of years apart in age. We come from (2) happy homes as my parents have divorced and remarried. I have many siblings but no matter which home I was staying at for a visit so was my brother Tim.

I can remember growing up playing games together, getting in trouble together, fighting together, and loving together. Tim wasn’t always the best big brother as I’m sure most brothers are not at some times, but he was always there for me when I needed him and he was always looking out for me and the friends I would associate with, and for a long time I never appreciated that because I always thought he would always be here for me, and now I no longer have a big brother.

I still remember receiving that devastating phone call that July evening. I will never be able to get my parents screams out of my mind. I will never forget dropping to the floor and having to have my friends and my common-law husband Brad pick me up while I tried to catch my breath.

Brad & I were suppose to be starting our vacation together on the Friday after Tim was murdered but instead we ended up packing as fast as we could, so we could come be with our family. Brad started driving from our home in Edmonton while I tried to come to terms with the reality of what happened which to be honest I don’t think I will ever be able to come to terms with any of this. We drove for 13 hours throughout the night after working all day, until we pulled into the driveway of my childhood home, only for me to look at Brad & say “ I can’t get out. I can’t go see my parents” Then to find out that the media was parked out front of my families house in the city and that I would not be able to go and see them until the next day, which broke my heart in so many pieces that I would not be able to be there for them, and they were not able to be there for me when I needed them.

Tim called me the night he was getting onto the bus, as he needed directions to the Greyhound bus depot. Because of the horrific mutilation that Mr. Li exercised on my brother I will forever live with the regret, gilt and question of why? Why did I give Tim directions???

After hearing the soul killing details and descriptions of what happened to Timothy that night I was unable to eat for I believe (5) days. Because I didn’t eat anything for that length of time I was severely sick and had such bad stomach pains I couldn’t even stand up straight. I needed someone to cut up any food I attempted to eat afterwards because when I tried to use my knife with my supper my hand would not stop shaking long enough for me to cut up my own food, and I still have a hard time eating any meat.

I am still not able to sleep throughout the night without being awakened by the haunting images that will forever be burned into my spirit. I have had to reduce my workweek as it got to the point where I was late every other day and my co-workers had to pick up my slack. I was so tired and still unable to sleep or to stop my mind from replaying the images of seeing my brother suffer or calling out for help. Worse……… I am not able to stop seeing specific details of Mr. Li defiling my brother’s body.

It has been extremely difficult to try to move forward with my life. I have had to fly or drive back to Winnipeg on several occasions to be with my family, over the holidays or for any court appearances, and counseling.

I find it difficult to enjoy life’s simple pleasures or certain aspects of my future. I will not have my big brother at my wedding & my children will not have their uncle Tim around to spoil them. What I will have is a memory of the day after what is suppose to be a fun, exciting, milestone birthday of turning 21years old a nightmare and sorrow filled day of burying my big brother.

I thought that would be one of the worst days of my life but then shortly after my birthday is Timothy’s birthday, and then Thanks giving, Christmas, new years, and now every year on July 30th It will be the anniversary of when my brother Tim had his last smile, his last laugh and his last breath.

Mr. Li took that from him and from us. You…. Li will have to live with the demons and the guilt of what you have done.

Carol de Delley’s Victim Impact Statement…in its entirety.

I would like to thank your Honor and the court, for allowing me this opportunity to attempt to put into words, the affect this crime has had on me. (more…)

Review Board: Vincent Li to be detained in custody… For Now

PROVINCE OF MANITOBA
CANADA

Review Board

IN THE MATTER OF: Part XX.1 Criminal Code of Canada

AND IN THE MATTER OF: Vince Weiguang Li

AND IN THE MATTER OF: A Disposition hearing held in Winnipeg, Manitoba on Monday, June 1, 2009

QUORUM: John Stefaniuk, Chairperson
John Brown, Member
Dr. Thomas Thompson, Member
Dr. Maralyn MacKay, Member
Peggy Dillon, Member

APPEARANCES: Vince Weiguang Li

Mr. A. Libman and Mr. G. Bates,
Counsel for Mr. Li

Ms. C. Deegan,
Counsel for the Attorney General

DISPOSITION AND REASONS

Vince Weiguang Li appeared before the Review Board on Monday, June 1, 2009 for a Disposition hearing pursuant to Section 672.47(2) of the Criminal Code of Canada.

In making this disposition, we have considered the evidence before the Board at Mr. Li’s hearing, submissions by counsel, the evidence of Dr. S. Yaren and the victim impact statements filed in these proceedings, on June 1, 2009. We have also taken into consideration the need to protect the public from dangerous persons, the present mental condition of Mr. Li and his reintegration into society and his other needs.

Background

Mr. Li was required to appear for this hearing, having been found not criminally responsible on account of mental disorder in the Court of Queen’s Bench, Winnipeg, Manitoba on March 5, 2009 with respect to a charge of Second Degree Murder. After rendering the verdict, the presiding justice did not make a disposition but granted an extension of time to 90 days within which the Review Board is required to hold a hearing and make a disposition regarding Mr. Li.

The facts surrounding the index offence and those related to Mr. Li’s background and history are set out in the agreed statement of facts submitted by counsel in Mr. Li’s trial before the Honourable Justice Scurfield in the Manitoba Court of Queen’s Bench and the reports of Dr. Rootenberg, Dr. Robertson, and the several progress reports of Dr. Yaren prepared following Mr. Li’s incarceration and the direct evidence of the witnesses which also formed exhibits in this hearing. Those facts were not put in issue by the parties at this hearing. (more…)

Carol de Delley Responds to Recent Reports on Vincent Li

From the beginning of this nightmare I have been trying to make the public aware that these extremely violent offenders who are found to be Not Criminally Responsible, are released into the community with no criminal record! Usually in less than 5 years and often in less than 3!!

A murder still occurred. Someone must be held accountable. I’ve always been seeking justice NOT vengeance. When Vincent Li is released and if he re-offends who then will be held responsible? Will it be Dr.Yaren, or whichever Psychiatric expert signs his release? Will it be the CEO of the schizophrenic Society? Or will it be all the members of the review board? I think not.

Twenty months from the time of Li’s Psychotic break, Li has had a “faster than usual, better than average” response to treatment and drugs and is no longer haunted by the voice of God in his head.

Vincent Li would have found that to be the case if he had not consciously disregarded the substantial and unjustifiable risk he was taking when he chose to ignore his diagnosis of schizophrenia which he received in the same year as he received Canadian citizenship(05). He has proven to be non-compliant with treatment and meds,

In my opinion he is unpredictable and extremely dangerous. Tim McLean had Human rights to Life, Liberty and Security of person. Vincent Li violated Tim’s rights. The Power is in the People!. The Universal Declaration of Human rights states” The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of the government”. Everyone who wants to see change needs to be the catalyst for change.

Contact your local MLA’s and MP’s. If you can write on a comment wall, write to your elected official. I can only raise awareness that change is necessary. My son Timothy died for it, and its exactly what I’ve been saying since the first vigil I held at the Legislature in Manitoba in Oct of 2008.

Please get behind my voice so that so that the will of the people is heard.

Thank-you
Carol de Delley

Fifth Estate to air Tim McLean story “Bus 1170″

On Friday Nov 6th, The long running CBC show Fifth Estate will air Tim’s story titled “Bus 1170″

9pm and 9:30 in Newfoundland.
Check your local programming guide for channels

Bus 1170 Synopsis
On a peaceful summer’s night in July 2008, along a stretch of the Trans Canada Highway in Manitoba, the unthinkable happened. What started as just another Prairie bus ride became a nightmare when the lives of two passengers intersected tragically and resulted in the murder of Tim McLean. In Bus 1170, Bob McKeown takes us inside what happened on Greyhound 1170 through the eyes of the surviving passengers and other witnesses.

A seemingly random decision, to take the Greyhound from B.C. to Winnipeg rather than a friend’s offer of a plane ticket, would cost twenty-two-year-old Tim McLean his life, would profoundly change the lives of dozens of others who saw his murder and shock anyone who has heard about it since. On Greyhound 1170, Vincent Li, a diagnosed schizophrenic on his own randomly chosen bus journey, sat beside McLean and then, obeying voices inside his head, repeatedly stabbed and then cannibalized Tim McLean’s body.

In Bus 1170, the fifth estate recounts the story from the perspective of two of the surviving passengers. Stephen Allison vividly recounts his sense of foreboding as Vincent Li walked down the aisle and took the seat across from him, beside Tim McLean. And Kayli Shaw remembers the chilling moment when Allison ran by her yelling at the driver to pull over, that someone was being stabbed. She says she is still haunted by the sound of Tim McLean’s screams.

Bob McKeown also introduces us to truck driver Chris Alguire, who stopped his truck when he saw the Greyhound at the side of the road. Alguire tried to confront Vincent Li. What he saw has left him unable to resume his former job or life since then. We’ll also meet the man who probably knows Vincent Li best, forensic psychiatrist Dr. Stanley Yaren. He spent hours with Vincent Li and transcripts of their conversations are re-created to understand why Vincent Li felt he had no choice but to kill Tim McLean.

And the fifth estate talks to Tim McLean’s family – his father, stepmother and mother – who today still struggle to understand why the RCMP stood outside Bus 1170 for five hours, as Vincent Li cut up their son’s body, before intervening.

Can Schizophrenics be treated? Yes. Cured? No

Should they be released to live in the community? No. Not if they have taken a life. For all violent offenders, time detained needs to fit the offence committed. If an individual takes a life that individual needs to lose their freedom for the rest of their life.

Mentally ill individuals are the most vulnerable of society (next to children). Mentally ill individuals who are seeking treatment and have committed no crime, should not be housed with criminally insane, extremely violent offenders. In fact, that possibility may even prevent some with mental illness from seeking treatment. Canada needs to build a facility to house the criminally insane where the psychiatric community can treat them and study them for the rest of their lives.

Currently, the only person responsible for a “very disturbed’ individuals care, treatment and medication, is that individual. Society cannot force them into treatment nor can society force medicate them. They ARE responsible for themselves. Until they fail to comply, do something this heinous and then they are NOT responsible! They cannot and should not, have it both ways. N.C.R means NOT CRIMINALLY RESPONSIBLE, it also means NO CRIMINAL RECORD! These offenders are then removed from the criminal system and placed in the medical system where they are then referred to as patients not criminals. That is unbelievable and unacceptable!. They have committed the most serious of crimes.

The rights of the victims and their families needs to be considered not discarded in favor of the “patients” rights. The family has the right (at their own expense) to attend yearly reviews of the offender’s mental state,(not easy if they move the offender to another province) They also have the right to submit a victim’s impact statement,( which is subject to being censored). The review board is disinclined to allow the submission of an impact statement at subsequent reviews, from anyone who already submitted one at the offenders first review hearing. In my case, I had not even been through the year of firsts without my son, but felt I needed to speak on his behalf since it seemed no one else would be. Many are too traumatized to prepare one for the first review board hearing. Canada needs to send a message that this is not ok and will not be tolerated

Timothy McLean had rights too. Tim’s Law is about Public Safety. Tim’s voice died tragically with him that evening last July. We all need to be his voice now and the voice of so many that died too soon at the hands of Schizophrenics and others who are found NCR.

Submitted by; Carol de Delley , Tim McLean’s Mom.

Mom.s magazine tribute to Tim McLean and his family

MOM Magazine Tribute to Tim McLean and his family

in the May/June 09 Issue

Dear Readers,
The death of Tim McLean in August 2008 horrified people around the world. Vince Li, the person responsible for Tim’s death, was found Not Criminally Responsible.

From what I have seen of Tim McLean’s mom, Carol de Delley, she is amazing. She has kind, dark brown eyes and a maternal warmth that makes her the type of woman you want to hug when you see her. She was composed, strong and articulate during an interview with the Winnipeg Free Press . Her strength amazes me. Seeing her speak about Tim and the events of his death made me want to reach out to this mom even more.
Carol sent me this speech that she gave during a vigil for Tim. These are her thoughts in her words.
She is currently trying to change the Not Criminally Responsible law. Let’s help make it happen.
Tamara
By Carol deDelley

In the beginning whenever I saw a greyhound bus I felt physically ill. Now every time I see a Greyhound bus, I wave and say, “Hi Tim,” because I have had to train my mind to think of it as a way of Timothy letting me know that he is okay now.

Whenever we have a moment of happiness or joy, whether it’s a funny joke or TV program, we smile laugh or giggle then feelings of guilt immediately follow because what is there to smile about? We know that life has to go on but it is very difficult.

Treatment or Punishment ?

Why not both? In a violent crime such as this one, the question here in Canada becomes: Treatment or Punishment?

I believe that treatment and punishment should go hand in hand. I do not believe that treatment will “heal” Vincent Li, and I do not believe that Vincent Li should ever, and I repeat ever, be permitted to walk amongst us as a free man, ever again. It could be your child, your loved one or you yourself that he loses it on next time. What possible assurance could we ever have that he wouldn’t repeat this unbelievably violent behavior.

Is it possible that this is a result of cutbacks to funding for mental health issues? I don’t know. Let’s not forget, however, that Vincent Li DID commit this horrific murder, beheading and cannibalization UNPROVOKED. And yes I believe he needs to be held RESPONSIBLE for that.

Fit to stand trial. Fit for punishment.

Treatment in a locked facility for the rest of his life, period. No parole, no good behavior, nothing. He took an innocent life, was completely unprovoked and we need to send a message that this is not OK and will NOT be tolerated.

My son Timothy lost his life and our lives will never be the same without him being a part of it. The horror that took place on that bus has created so much fear…the randomness of it…The fear of all the other passengers who actually witnessed it, the visions that are forever burned in their memories and will haunt them always.

The children that were there that night, I can’t even imagine the nightmares they all must be having, they are forever damaged, their innocence gone. They are all Vincent Li’s living victims and he must be held accountable for that as well. I want it to be very clear that under our current laws it is possible that Vincent Li could be released some day.

Most people believe that he will be locked up and the key thrown away. NOT TRUE!!! In fact if he is found not criminally responsible, my family will have to attend a yearly review of Mr Li’s mental condition.

How is that justice?

That is unbelievable and unacceptable! Would you want this person medically treated or not who has demonstrated this level of violence towards another human being, settling down in your neighborhood, ever, at any time in the future? I know I don’t.

Under our current Judicial system Vincent Li will likely continue to receive medical treatment and he will be studied. I believe that if he is able to remain aware of exactly what he did to another human being ( My son) than so be it.

He needs to be in a locked facility where he can think about it everyday for the rest of his life. THAT IS HIS PUNISHMENT!!! He still has a life and his victim does not. I believe this is a “NO BRAINER!”

Locked up for Life

Timothy’s 23rd birthday would have been Oct 3, 2008. We had his favorite foods for dinner and a cake with good friends, but Timothy wasn’t there and he never will be again. Myself and my family are seeking JUSTICE for Timothy. MERCY for ourselves. We should not have to go through Vincent Li’s review process each year instead of a birthday party. And SAFETY for all of us.

Most of all we are gathering here tonight to raise awareness that this is what this family now faces and what other parents could be facing in the future if these laws are not changed. Please help me to be the voice that says “NOT GOOD ENOUGH, NOT ACCEPTABLE and definitely NOT JUSTICE!!!!!”

A change needs to come from this tragedy, a change for improvements to many of our current systems because they failed Timothy and they are failing
all of us. I believe we are all fed up with violent criminals continuing to get away with or getting lenient sentences for outrageous and violent crimes against others. There have been too many cases of violent criminals being incarcerated, treated and released, only to re-offend.

Enough is Enough

I am inspired and strengthened by all the support and prayers from everyone here, across the country and across the world. My sons horrific murder happened so that everyone would be paying attention. Could this be the start of the greater good that’s supposed to come from something this devastating?

Board reviews Li’s case in June

THE Manitoba Criminal Code Review Board will decide Vincent Li’s fate at a June 1 hearing. Relying solely on a report complied by Dr Stanley Yaren, a judge found  Li not criminally responsible last week for the slaying of Tim McLean on a Greyhound bus near Portage la Prairie last summer. Bev Scharikow, administrator of the review board, said board members will review the evidence and decide where Li will be sent for treatment.

Li brutally stabbed McLean as he slept on the Greyhound bus, then later decapitated him and cannibalized him. Court was told last week by Dr Stanley Yaren, that Li is a schizophrenic who thought the voice of God told him to stab and decapitate McLean.

Scharikow said the hearing will be held at the downtown Law Courts complex and will be open to the public. Scharikow said Li will appear before the board every year. It will determine if he needs to remain institutionalized or if he is well enough to be released.

The evidence put before the board for its consideration is expected to include police reports, victim impact statements and psychiatric assessments, which say Li is a risk to himself and others.

Observers believe that the board will conclude Li must be sent to a secure psychiatric facility, either at the Selkirk Mental Health Centre or the Health Sciences Centre.

Manitoba’s review board has 81 patients under its jurisdiction. The nine members of the board include three lawyers, five psychiatrists and one lay member.