Fifth Estate to air Tim’s story “Bus 1170″

On Friday Nov 6th, The long running CBC show Fifth Estate will air Tim’s story titled “Bus 1170″

9pm and 9:30 in Newfoundland.
Check your local programming guide for channels

Bus 1170 Synopsis
On a peaceful summer’s night in July 2008, along a stretch of the Trans Canada Highway in Manitoba, the unthinkable happened. What started as just another Prairie bus ride became a nightmare when the lives of two passengers intersected tragically and resulted in the murder of Tim McLean. In Bus 1170, Bob McKeown takes us inside what happened on Greyhound 1170 through the eyes of the surviving passengers and other witnesses.

A seemingly random decision, to take the Greyhound from B.C. to Winnipeg rather than a friend’s offer of a plane ticket, would cost twenty-two-year-old Tim McLean his life, would profoundly change the lives of dozens of others who saw his murder and shock anyone who has heard about it since. On Greyhound 1170, Vincent Li, a diagnosed schizophrenic on his own randomly chosen bus journey, sat beside McLean and then, obeying voices inside his head, repeatedly stabbed and then cannibalized McLean’s body.

In Bus 1170, the fifth estate recounts the story from the perspective of two of the surviving passengers. Stephen Allison vividly recounts his sense of foreboding as Li walked down the aisle and took the seat across from him, beside Tim McLean. And Kayli Shaw remembers the chilling moment when Allison ran by her yelling at the driver to pull over, that someone was being stabbed. She says she is still haunted by the sound of Tim McLean’s screams.

Bob McKeown also introduces us to truck driver Chris Alguire, who stopped his truck when he saw the Greyhound at the side of the road. Alguire tried to confront Li. What he saw has left him unable to resume his former job or life since then. We’ll also meet the man who probably knows Vincent Li best, forensic psychiatrist Dr. Stanley Yaren. He spent hours with Li and transcripts of their conversations are re-created to understand why Li felt he had no choice but to kill McLean.

And the fifth estate talks to Tim McLean’s family – his father, stepmother and mother – who today still struggle to understand why the RCMP stood outside Bus 1170 for five hours, as Li cut up their son’s body, before intervening.

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Can Schizophrenics be treated? Yes. Cured? No

Should they be released to live in the community? No. Not if they have taken a life. For all violent offenders, time detained needs to fit the offence committed. If an individual takes a life that individual needs to lose their freedom for the rest of their life.

Mentally ill individuals are the most vulnerable of society (next to children). Mentally ill individuals who are seeking treatment and have committed no crime, should not be housed with criminally insane, extremely violent offenders. In fact, that possibility may even prevent some with mental illness from seeking treatment. Canada needs to build a facility to house the criminally insane where the psychiatric community can treat them and study them for the rest of their lives.

Currently, the only person responsible for a “very disturbed’ individuals care, treatment and medication, is that individual. Society cannot force them into treatment nor can society force medicate them. They ARE responsible for themselves. Until they fail to comply, do something this heinous and then they are NOT responsible! They cannot and should not, have it both ways. N.C.R means NOT CRIMINALLY RESPONSIBLE, it also means NO CRIMINAL RECORD! These offenders are then removed from the criminal system and placed in the medical system where they are then referred to as patients not criminals. That is unbelievable and unacceptable!. They have committed the most serious of crimes.

The rights of the victims and their families needs to be considered not discarded in favor of the “patients” rights. The family has the right (at their own expense) to attend yearly reviews of the offender’s mental state,(not easy if they move the offender to another province) They also have the right to submit a victim’s impact statement,( which is subject to being censored). The review board is disinclined to allow the submission of an impact statement at subsequent reviews, from anyone who already submitted one at the offenders first review hearing. In my case, I had not even been through the year of firsts without my son, but felt I needed to speak on his behalf since it seemed no one else would be. Many are too traumatized to prepare one for the first review board hearing. Canada needs to send a message that this is not ok and will not be tolerated

Timothy McLean had rights too. Tim’s Law is about Public Safety. Tim’s voice died tragically with him that evening last July. We all need to be his voice now and the voice of so many that died too soon at the hands of Schizophrenics and others who are found NCR.

Submitted by; Carol de Delley , Tim McLean’s Mom.

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Mom.s magazine tribute to Tim and his family

MOM Magazine Tribute to Tim and his family

in the May/June 09 Issue

Dear Readers,
The death of Tim McLean in August 2008 horrified people around the world. Vince Li, the person responsible for Tim’s death, was found Not Criminally Responsible.

From what I have seen of Tim’s mom, Carol de Delley, she is amazing. She has kind, dark brown eyes and a maternal warmth that makes her the type of woman you want to hug when you see her. She was composed, strong and articulate during an interview with the Winnipeg Free Press . Her strength amazes me. Seeing her speak about Tim and the events of his death made me want to reach out to this mom even more.
Carol sent me this speech that she gave during a vigil for Tim. These are her thoughts in her words.
She is currently trying to change the NCR law. Let’s help make it happen.
Tamara
By Carol deDelley

In the beginning whenever I saw a greyhound bus I felt physically ill. Now every time I see a Greyhound bus, I wave and say, “Hi Tim,” because I have had to train my mind to think of it as a way of Timothy letting me know that he is okay now.

Whenever we have a moment of happiness or joy, whether it’s a funny joke or TV program, we smile laugh or giggle then feelings of guilt immediately follow because what is there to smile about? We know that life has to go on but it is very difficult.

Treatment or Punishment ?

Why not both? In a violent crime such as this one, the question here in Canada becomes: Treatment or Punishment?

I believe that treatment and punishment should go hand in hand. I do not believe that treatment will “heal” Mr. Li, and I do not believe that Mr. Li should ever, and I repeat ever, be permitted to walk amongst us as a free man, ever again. It could be your child, your loved one or you yourself that he loses it on next time. What possible assurance could we ever have that he wouldn’t repeat this unbelievably violent behaviour.

Is it possible that this is a result of cutbacks to funding for mental health issues? I don’t know. Let’s not forget, however, that Mr. Li DID commit this horrific murder, beheading and cannibalization UNPROVOKED. And yes I believe he needs to be held RESPONSIBLE for that.

Fit to stand trial. Fit for punishment.

Treatment in a locked facility for the rest of his life, period. No parole, no good behavior, nothing. He took an innocent life, was completely unprovoked and we need to send a message that this is not OK and will NOT be tolerated.

My son Timothy lost his life and our lives will never be the same without him being a part of it. The horror that took place on that bus has created so much fear…the randomness of it…The fear of all the other passengers who actually witnessed it, the visions that are forever burned in their memories and will haunt them always.

The children that were there that night, I can’t even imagine the nightmares they all must be having, they are forever damaged, their innocence gone. They are all Mr. Li’s living victims and he must be held accountable for that as well. I want it to be very clear that under our current laws it is possible that Mr. Li could be released some day.

Most people believe that he will be locked up and the key thrown away. NOT TRUE!!! In fact if he is found not criminally responsible, my family will have to attend a yearly review of Mr Li’s mental condition.

How is that justice?

That is unbelievable and unacceptable! Would you want this person medically treated or not who has demonstrated this level of violence towards another human being, settling down in your neighborhood, ever, at any time in the future? I know I don’t.

Under our current Judicial system Mr. Li will likely continue to receive medical treatment and he will be studied. I believe that if he is able to remain aware of exactly what he did to another human being ( My son) than so be it.

He needs to be in a locked facility where he can think about it everyday for the rest of his life. THAT IS HIS PUNISHMENT!!! He still has a life and his victim does not. I believe this is a “NO BRAINER!”

Locked up for Life

Timothy’s 23rd birthday would have been Oct 3, 2008. We had his favorite foods for dinner and a cake with good friends, but Timothy wasn’t there and he never will be again. Myself and my family are seeking JUSTICE for Timothy. MERCY for ourselves. We should not have to go through Mr. Li’s review process each year instead of a birthday party. And SAFETY for all of us.

Most of all we are gathering here tonight to raise awareness that this is what this family now faces and what other parents could be facing in the future if these laws are not changed. Please help me to be the voice that says “NOT GOOD ENOUGH, NOT ACCEPTABLE and definitely NOT JUSTICE!!!!!”

A change needs to come from this tragedy, a change for improvements to many of our current systems because they failed Timothy and they are failing
all of us. I believe we are all fed up with violent criminals continuing to get away with or getting lenient sentences for outrageous and violent crimes against others. There have been too many cases of violent criminals being incarcerated, treated and released, only to re-offend.

Enough is Enough

I am inspired and strengthened by all the support and prayers from everyone here, across the country and across the world. My sons horrific murder happened so that everyone would be paying attention. Could this be the start of the greater good that’s supposed to come from something this devastating??

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Board reviews Li’s case in June

THE Manitoba Criminal Code Review Board will decide Vincent Li’s fate at a June 1 hearing. Relying solely on a report complied by Dr Stanley Yaren, a judge found  Li not criminally responsible last week for the slaying of Tim McLean on a Greyhound bus near Portage la Prairie last summer. Bev Scharikow, administrator of the review board, said board members will review the evidence and decide where Li will be sent for treatment.

Li brutally stabbed McLean as he slept on the Greyhound bus, then later decapitated him and cannibalized him. Court was told last week by Dr Stanley Yaren, that Li is a schizophrenic who thought the voice of God told him to stab and decapitate McLean.

Scharikow said the hearing will be held at the downtown Law Courts complex and will be open to the public. Scharikow said Li will appear before the board every year. It will determine if he needs to remain institutionalized or if he is well enough to be released.

The evidence put before the board for its consideration is expected to include police reports, victim impact statements and psychiatric assessments, which say Li is a risk to himself and others.

Observers believe that the board will conclude Li must be sent to a secure psychiatric facility, either at the Selkirk Mental Health Centre or the Health Sciences Centre.

Manitoba’s review board has 81 patients under its jurisdiction. The nine members of the board include three lawyers, five psychiatrists and one lay member.

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Vincent Li Review Hearing Set for June 1

Vince Li was found not criminally responsible last week for the brutal slaying of Tim McLean last summer near Portage la Prairie, Man,is to make his first appearance before a review board June 1.

Members of the Criminal Code Review Board are expected to send Li to a secure psychiatric facility. The board will review his case every year to decide whether Li must remain institutionalized or whether he is well enough to be released.

At the June 1 hearing, the group will review police reports, victim impact statements and psychiatric assessments, which say Li is a risk to himself and others.

Carol DeDelley, mother of Tim McLean, along with other concerned citizens are lobbying for Tim’s Law to ensure Li and other violent NCR killers are never deemed “cured” and allowed to become a threat to others.

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Timslaw.ca Adds Language Translator

The purpose of Tim’s Law is to raise awareness of deficiency in our legal system, which has allowed killers like Vincent Li, the perpetrator of the horrendous murder of Tim McLean, to freely mingle with an unsuspecting public. We have added a language translator to timslaw.ca to further engage and foster a dialogue inclusive of the varying attitudes and opinions,

Proponents of Tim’s Law hope not only to raise awareness of the inadequacy in Canada’s “Not Criminally Responsible” policy, but to also effect meaningful change that will prevent the possibility of repeat offences by NCR perpetrators.

While this translator feature may not offer the perfect solution, our hope is that people may overlook the inherent limitations these translators provide, and see the greater good and awareness that timslaw.ca seeks to promote. Timslaw.ca is endeavouring to provide an inclusive forum crossing both the cultural and opinionated spectrum present in Canadian society.

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Criminal or Insane

By CHINTA PUXLEY, THE CANADIAN PRESS

Her son was sleeping peacefully, listening to music on his earphones as the Greyhound bus drove across the Prairies last summer.

Minutes later, horrified passengers heard Tim McLean “scream bloody murder” as he was repeatedly stabbed and eventually decapitated.

Seven months later, McLean’s mother Carol deDelley is steeling herself to face the man charged with second-degree murder in her son’s brutal slaying as Vince Li goes on trial in Winnipeg tomorrow.

But she doesn’t expect closure from the proceedings, regardless of the outcome.

“There is no possible good outcome for me,” she said. “The trial to me seems like another thing we have to endure — a formality that we have to sit through.”

That’s because the sole issue at the three-day trial, being heard by a judge without a jury, will be whether Li is criminally responsible for his actions.

Li’s lawyers have said they are not disputing that he killed McLean. Experts anticipate his lawyers will argue he was in an automaton state brought on by a mental health disorder and should be institutionalized rather than imprisoned.

If this argument is successful, Li would not have a criminal record and could eventually be released if deemed healthy by a mental health review board. Unlike a conviction for murder, anyone found not criminally responsible is also not required to serve a minimum amount of time in detention.

But the victim’s mother says the prospect that the man charged in her son’s death might eventually be released is too much to bear. The law has to be changed so anyone found not criminally responsible for a crime still serves time in prison, she said.

“I don’t think mental illness ought to absolve you of your responsibilities for your behaviour,” Carol deDelley said yesterday. “Once the crime has been committed I still believe they need to be held responsible, otherwise what sort of a message are you sending?” (more…)

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Family wasn’t shocked

It was a verdict Tim McLean’s family knew was coming, one they didn’t want to hear.

Before a packed courtroom yesterday morning, Justice John Scurfield ruled Vincent Li not be held criminally responsible for stabbing, dismembering and decapitating McLean aboard a Greyhound bus last summer.

The decision means Li will not be going to jail, but a mental institution.

“Persons who are profoundly ill do not have the mental capacity to intentionally commit a crime,” Scurfield said.

“The goal of criminal law is to punish criminals, not persons who have a mental illness.”

Scurfield ordered Li to remain in a secure psychiatric facility until a hearing can be scheduled before the Criminal Code review board. Li is expected to then be committed to the Selkirk Mental Health Centre for long-term treatment.

Once lodged at the centre, Li will be subject to annual reviews to consider his release.

“We didn’t go into this morning with any surprises expected and we didn’t get any,” McLean’s mother Carol deDelley told reporters outside court. “We will now have to go on a yearly basis, instead of having a birthday party, to ensure Mr. Li is kept locked up to keep everybody else safe.”

“Knowing that killer might get out very soon is very hard,” said McLean’s father Tim.

At a trial earlier this week, two forensic psychiatrists testified Li is a schizophrenic who believed he heard the voice of God directing him to kill McLean.

McLean’s family is calling on the federal government to pass a new law requiring mandatory life sentences for murder, regardless of the offender’s mental state.

“There is still a possibility of him being freed,” deDelley said. “Is the likelihood there? I’m not sure, but the possibility shouldn’t even be there. He still did it, whether he was in his right frame of mind or not. There was nobody else on that bus holding a knife slicing up my child.”

Li’s two-day trial heard testimony from just two witnesses — the forensic psychiatrists who examined him. Crown attorney Joyce Dalmyn said because Li admitted killing McLean, there was no reason to hear testimony from the nearly three dozen passengers who were on the bus with them.

Awaiting clarification

Dalmyn said the Crown’s office is still awaiting clarification from the RCMP as to whether an NCR finding means Li will have a criminal record.

“Certainly it is something that the RCMP do track and is information that would be available to them were there any further finding or charges in the future,” she said.

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Judge rules not criminally responsible

A judge has ruled that Vincent Li is not criminally responsible for the murder and dismemberment of Tim McLean aboard a Greyhound bus.

Yet, in a strange development confirmed shortly after the ruling, a government official told media Li will have a criminal record, which is not typically the case for those found not criminally responsible (NCR).

That official has not yet explained why or how this will occur.

Earlier, the judge did offer insight as to why he chose the NCR ruling.

“Persons who are profoundly ill do not have the mental capacity to intentionally commit a crime,” said Justice John Scurfield.

“This case has attracted international attention because of the barbaric manner in which Mr. McLean was killed,” Scurfield said.

“These grotesque acts are appalling…but are strongly suggestive of a mental disorder.”

The ruling means Li will be held in custody at a mental institution, not jail.

Li will remain in secure custody at the psychiatric unit of Health Sciences Centre until a hearing can be scheduled before the mental health review board.

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Vincent Li Found NOT Criminally Responsible

Vince Li has been found not criminally responsible in the unprovoked killing of fellow passenger Timothy McLean on a Greyhound bus last summer.

Manitoba Court of Queen’s Bench Judge John Scurfield said Thursday that Li, 40, could not be found guilty of murder and is not criminally responsible for the crime because he was mentally ill at the time of the killing.

“These grotesque acts are appalling… but are suggestive of a mental disorder,” the judge said.

“He did not appreciate the act he committed was wrong.”

Li had pleaded not guilty to a charge of second-degree murder. Psychiatric evidence at his trial suggested he is a schizophrenic who suffered a major psychotic episode last July 30 when he stabbed McLean, 22, to death.

For five hours after the killing Li wandered around on the bus, from which passengers had fled onto a lonely stretch of Manitoba highway, defiling the body while an RCMP tactical team waited to subdue him.

Rather than go to prison, Li will be kept in a secure psychiatric facility, most likely in Selkirk, Man.

He comes under the jurisdiction of Manitoba’s provincial review board, which will decide whether he poses a risk to the public. The review board has the power to keep Li locked up indefinitely or, if he is no longer considered a risk, discharge him.

McLean’s family had been lobbying for a change in the Criminal Code to prevent mentally ill killers from being released back into the community. His mother, Carol de Delley, has said that regardless of the verdict, she would do everything in her power to ensure Li is never released from secure custody.

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